Camp brought up a good point at Lost Lunch today about how the episode title is "What Kate Does," a play on the earlier "What Kate Did." If you read the episode description it tells you brief little summary of what happens during the episode (duh). Anyway, tonight's says, "Kate goes on the run, Jack is given a task that he learns could have life-threatening consequences for a friend." So basically, it seems like this is telling us about off-island kate and on-island Jack, but on-island Kate also goes "on the run" (aka totally kicks that dude's ass... so awesome). Also, Kate delivered Aaron in one universe, and now she's a part of his other-universe birth. Could there be a correlation between what happens in one universe and what happens in another? Just something to look out for...
That's interesting to think about, the whole correlation thing.
Anyway, I actually thought that episode was a great set-up for the rest of this season. I sense a definite trend of Esau/Smokie followers vs. Temple peeps.
Very interesting to see all the actors getting more of a chance to show off their acting chops. Sawyer's crying wasn't unbearable and overacted. Pretty impressive.
That guy from Sunny being in it was irrelevant but sorta hilarious.
"It happened to your sister." Terrifying.
Actually kinda cool seeing the hardcore Rousseau-esque Claire. It'll be interesting to see if Claire, Sayid, and Locke actually are evil, of if, as we've seen in other seasons, good and evil get really blurred. Somehow I'm expecting some blurriness.
Is it just me, or are the Temple guys wicked shadowy?
Kate was just cold shutting down Jack like that. Harsh.
1. Not a great overall episode. I'm not looking to become the Debbie Downer of the group, but today's was, in many ways, sub par.
2. I forget his name, but other leader's translator to stay separate from his people (Camp I'm sure you have loads to say about this) was really cool....also a great contrast to Jack, man of the people. Speaking of Jack, he was back in full force as the man of science. The guy will do anything to know what something is.....like try to poison himself.
3. This is a random one, but I feel like Sayids injury was a lot like young ben's who then was taken to the others and they did something to him.
4. oh this is from last week but did we talk much about Richard? Everyone I watch with here thinks he came on the Black Rock
5. For the episode being called "What Kate Did' she really didn't do all that much. In either universe. It was cool to see how the universes have some things parallel and some not, it seemed like Kate was going to deliver Claire's baby...again, and ethan was going to be a creep and stick big needles into claires stomach....again. But none of that happened.
Ok I really should be studying so I'll write more later but as a final thought: damn artz always messing stuff up
Richard and the Black Rock makes a lot of sense. I've definitely been getting that feeling, especially since the "nice seeing you out of chains" line. Slave ship, anyone?
Not a great episode, but still some interesting stuff:
Kate seems to pay special attention when she sees Jack from the cab, and she definitely reacts to the name Aaron. We're getting more evidence that characters in this reality have a fuzzy awareness/memory of their parallel lives. It'll be really interesting if we get to see them regain full awareness/memory. Again, this sets us up well for a re-convergence.
Memory is an interesting thing to think about. When Ben was healed by the spring, Richard explained that he wouldn't remember some things. Desmond, Claire and Daniel all had memory issues in past seasons, too. In this episode, Sayid doesn't remember what happened to him. I wonder if all of this will tie together at some point.
The stuff with poison is interesting, since we've seen poison gas play a role twice in previous seasons. And the vaccine that we saw in previous seasons (this is a big stretch) was green, just like the pill that Dogen makes.
Miles is strange in several moments, and I get the sense that he heard something (from Sayid? from whatever is possessing/infecting Sayid?) that he hasn't shared with anyone yet.
There are lots of interesting parallels... --Dogen/Jack: connected through baseball and medicine, contrasted through communication styles --Claire/Rousseau: both setting traps, looking crazy, living in isolation? --Young Ben/Sayid: both shot in the gut, both cured by the spring? --Claire/Sayid: both infected/possessed? The writers seem to be pushing the idea that history repeats itself. I like how that idea lines up well with the initial conversation we saw between Jacob and Esau.
Free will was the focus in the scene where Jack comes into Dogen's office. When he comes in, Lennon says something about how they're glad that he came in on his own. Later in the scene, Dogen explains that the pill won't work if Sayid is forced to take it; he needs choose to take it. And being "possessed" is really about losing your free will, right? Maybe the "bad guys" are simply the ones who have lost their free will somehow?
I got the feeling Dogan was from the Black Rock, and I get weird vibes from his hippie translator, like he'll have some sneak attack later on. Jack was way too predictable swallowing the equally predicatable poison pill. It was good to see Claire back though even if she looked ridiculously crazy. I want to see a Claire Kate showdown, where maybe they get the sense of the alternate timeline now that it exists? If it worked in the other timeline with moments of recognition, why not here?
Although after my first viewing I was ready to declare that episode as terrible like Liz the Debbie Downer (ha), I've changed my mind having just watched it again, sans commercials (a million times better that way).
I agree that Kate's look at Jack and reaction to the name Aaron are very key; Jack had a key expression, too. I also would argue that this is why Claire agrees to let mad-escape-convict Kate help her--that deep in her subconscious, she could feel the other universe. I don't know about the universes merging, but as a supporter in the concept of the alternate universe, I really really like those looks and reactions: they know something but just can't quite get a handle on it.
Sayid the torturer has now BEEN tortured three times himself: in "Enter 77," in "He's Our You," and now in this one. I like the theme of that being turned on him. But, I wonder, is that a deeper thematic point for other characters as well?
I liked how Sawyer told Kate, "Don't come after me" which echoes Jack telling her "Don't come back for me" during Ben's surgery. And she does both times.
In the entire arc of the show, Sawyer has undergone the most personal change. Pretty cool, since in the early seasons, he seemed like the 1-dimensional wise-ass foil. Interesting that in this episode he says that Jack, Sayid et al are "not my friend."
Sawyer and Kate's convo on the dock was intriguing: both of them changed Juliet's 'fate' by stopping her from going on the sub. It shows how in the alternate universe, some histories are changed (Shannon staying with the boyfriend, etc.), because all it takes are slight shades of cause and effect to alter one's path dramatically or just enough to change some outcomes. I REALLY think it's cool that in some 'fate, coincidence, or other' way some people's lives are JUST intertwined no matter what (Claire-Kate; Ethan-Claire; Locke-Jack). That's awesome.
I took a class in college on Dogen. He preached "zazen," which was about sitting meditation and a way to reach enlightenment.
Dogen's line, "I was brought here like everyone else" is important, especially if you've taken my LOST class: in The Tempest, Ariel is the only native to the island, and those that come (Sycorax the witch and Prospero) enslave Ariel and Ariel isn't free until they leave. Thus, Dogen's line may infer that Jacob and the smoke monster are the only indigenous inhabitants of the island, and the smoke monster just wants to be 'home', i.e. everyone gone. This works with his first comments in The Incident when he asks Jacob why he would bring people to the island because all they do is destruct.
Crazy Claire looked like a combo of Rousseau, Eloise Hawking when she shot Faraday, and Ally Carter.
I'm starting to think that the Smoke Monster is the good one and Jacob is the bad one...........
Questions: *Why does Dogen say that the need Sawyer back? Why would he matter?
*If Sayid is "claimed," it can't be by the smoke monster since Locke is its current avatar. Thus, if Jacob has claimed him, then this would relate to Jacob possibly being evil. And, if Jacob claimed him, it would be similar to Claire being 'claimed' and sitting in Jacob's cabin.
*Finally, in the 2004 alternate universe, does anyone else think Kate's lips look like the Joker's??
I think I may agree on the Jacob thing, Camp. For some reason he just seems sinister. But at the same time I have a hard time looking at Esau/Smokie as a good guy, especially after the brutality in Jacob's Footlocker.
It seems to me that it's a situation where good and bad aren't quite the right way to look at it. Maybe Esau is just grumpy and wants everyone out.
Also, is it just me or does it seem like Jacob has a bit of a Jack-style "must fix everything" complex?
Way too little time to really get into things, but....
- No, I don't recall Kate's lips looking particularly Joker-esque, but a different Joker parallel did occur to me. Dogen has given two totally different answers the two times he was confronted about speaking Japanese despite knowing English; the first time, it was because English "tasted bad" or whatever, and the second time it was to stay separate from his people. "You wanna know how I got these scars?"
- "I was brought here like everyone else" -- yeah, that was key... I like the Tempest stuff, Camp....
- And the memory / possession / infection stuff, Mr. MacDonald....
- If the universe has a way of course-correcting, then it makes sense that, if you reset it to an earlier time, things will proceed similarly... even if other things have been changed. And yet, I was prepared to view the no-Island universe as one free from that predestination stuff.
- Cf. The Incident: "It only ends once. Anything that happens before that is just progress."
Camp brought up a good point at Lost Lunch today about how the episode title is "What Kate Does," a play on the earlier "What Kate Did." If you read the episode description it tells you brief little summary of what happens during the episode (duh). Anyway, tonight's says, "Kate goes on the run, Jack is given a task that he learns could have life-threatening consequences for a friend."
ReplyDeleteSo basically, it seems like this is telling us about off-island kate and on-island Jack, but on-island Kate also goes "on the run" (aka totally kicks that dude's ass... so awesome). Also, Kate delivered Aaron in one universe, and now she's a part of his other-universe birth.
Could there be a correlation between what happens in one universe and what happens in another? Just something to look out for...
That's interesting to think about, the whole correlation thing.
ReplyDeleteAnyway, I actually thought that episode was a great set-up for the rest of this season. I sense a definite trend of Esau/Smokie followers vs. Temple peeps.
Very interesting to see all the actors getting more of a chance to show off their acting chops. Sawyer's crying wasn't unbearable and overacted. Pretty impressive.
That guy from Sunny being in it was irrelevant but sorta hilarious.
"It happened to your sister." Terrifying.
Actually kinda cool seeing the hardcore Rousseau-esque Claire. It'll be interesting to see if Claire, Sayid, and Locke actually are evil, of if, as we've seen in other seasons, good and evil get really blurred. Somehow I'm expecting some blurriness.
Is it just me, or are the Temple guys wicked shadowy?
Kate was just cold shutting down Jack like that. Harsh.
Much more to come, but I'm exhausted.
Ok a few points:
ReplyDelete1. Not a great overall episode. I'm not looking to become the Debbie Downer of the group, but today's was, in many ways, sub par.
2. I forget his name, but other leader's translator to stay separate from his people (Camp I'm sure you have loads to say about this) was really cool....also a great contrast to Jack, man of the people. Speaking of Jack, he was back in full force as the man of science. The guy will do anything to know what something is.....like try to poison himself.
3. This is a random one, but I feel like Sayids injury was a lot like young ben's who then was taken to the others and they did something to him.
4. oh this is from last week but did we talk much about Richard? Everyone I watch with here thinks he came on the Black Rock
5. For the episode being called "What Kate Did' she really didn't do all that much. In either universe. It was cool to see how the universes have some things parallel and some not, it seemed like Kate was going to deliver Claire's baby...again, and ethan was going to be a creep and stick big needles into claires stomach....again. But none of that happened.
Ok I really should be studying so I'll write more later but as a final thought: damn artz always messing stuff up
Yeah Liz, damn Artz.
ReplyDeleteI like the YoungBen/Sayid parallel.
Richard and the Black Rock makes a lot of sense. I've definitely been getting that feeling, especially since the "nice seeing you out of chains" line. Slave ship, anyone?
Not a great episode, but still some interesting stuff:
ReplyDeleteKate seems to pay special attention when she sees Jack from the cab, and she definitely reacts to the name Aaron. We're getting more evidence that characters in this reality have a fuzzy awareness/memory of their parallel lives. It'll be really interesting if we get to see them regain full awareness/memory. Again, this sets us up well for a re-convergence.
Memory is an interesting thing to think about. When Ben was healed by the spring, Richard explained that he wouldn't remember some things. Desmond, Claire and Daniel all had memory issues in past seasons, too. In this episode, Sayid doesn't remember what happened to him. I wonder if all of this will tie together at some point.
The stuff with poison is interesting, since we've seen poison gas play a role twice in previous seasons. And the vaccine that we saw in previous seasons (this is a big stretch) was green, just like the pill that Dogen makes.
Miles is strange in several moments, and I get the sense that he heard something (from Sayid? from whatever is possessing/infecting Sayid?) that he hasn't shared with anyone yet.
There are lots of interesting parallels...
--Dogen/Jack: connected through baseball and medicine, contrasted through communication styles
--Claire/Rousseau: both setting traps, looking crazy, living in isolation?
--Young Ben/Sayid: both shot in the gut, both cured by the spring?
--Claire/Sayid: both infected/possessed?
The writers seem to be pushing the idea that history repeats itself. I like how that idea lines up well with the initial conversation we saw between Jacob and Esau.
Free will was the focus in the scene where Jack comes into Dogen's office. When he comes in, Lennon says something about how they're glad that he came in on his own. Later in the scene, Dogen explains that the pill won't work if Sayid is forced to take it; he needs choose to take it. And being "possessed" is really about losing your free will, right? Maybe the "bad guys" are simply the ones who have lost their free will somehow?
I got the feeling Dogan was from the Black Rock, and I get weird vibes from his hippie translator, like he'll have some sneak attack later on. Jack was way too predictable swallowing the equally predicatable poison pill. It was good to see Claire back though even if she looked ridiculously crazy. I want to see a Claire Kate showdown, where maybe they get the sense of the alternate timeline now that it exists? If it worked in the other timeline with moments of recognition, why not here?
ReplyDeleteAlthough after my first viewing I was ready to declare that episode as terrible like Liz the Debbie Downer (ha), I've changed my mind having just watched it again, sans commercials (a million times better that way).
ReplyDeleteI agree that Kate's look at Jack and reaction to the name Aaron are very key; Jack had a key expression, too. I also would argue that this is why Claire agrees to let mad-escape-convict Kate help her--that deep in her subconscious, she could feel the other universe. I don't know about the universes merging, but as a supporter in the concept of the alternate universe, I really really like those looks and reactions: they know something but just can't quite get a handle on it.
Sayid the torturer has now BEEN tortured three times himself: in "Enter 77," in "He's Our You," and now in this one. I like the theme of that being turned on him. But, I wonder, is that a deeper thematic point for other characters as well?
I liked how Sawyer told Kate, "Don't come after me" which echoes Jack telling her "Don't come back for me" during Ben's surgery. And she does both times.
In the entire arc of the show, Sawyer has undergone the most personal change. Pretty cool, since in the early seasons, he seemed like the 1-dimensional wise-ass foil. Interesting that in this episode he says that Jack, Sayid et al are "not my friend."
Sawyer and Kate's convo on the dock was intriguing: both of them changed Juliet's 'fate' by stopping her from going on the sub. It shows how in the alternate universe, some histories are changed (Shannon staying with the boyfriend, etc.), because all it takes are slight shades of cause and effect to alter one's path dramatically or just enough to change some outcomes. I REALLY think it's cool that in some 'fate, coincidence, or other' way some people's lives are JUST intertwined no matter what (Claire-Kate; Ethan-Claire; Locke-Jack). That's awesome.
I took a class in college on Dogen. He preached "zazen," which was about sitting meditation and a way to reach enlightenment.
Dogen's line, "I was brought here like everyone else" is important, especially if you've taken my LOST class: in The Tempest, Ariel is the only native to the island, and those that come (Sycorax the witch and Prospero) enslave Ariel and Ariel isn't free until they leave. Thus, Dogen's line may infer that Jacob and the smoke monster are the only indigenous inhabitants of the island, and the smoke monster just wants to be 'home', i.e. everyone gone. This works with his first comments in The Incident when he asks Jacob why he would bring people to the island because all they do is destruct.
Crazy Claire looked like a combo of Rousseau, Eloise Hawking when she shot Faraday, and Ally Carter.
I'm starting to think that the Smoke Monster is the good one and Jacob is the bad one...........
Questions:
*Why does Dogen say that the need Sawyer back? Why would he matter?
*If Sayid is "claimed," it can't be by the smoke monster since Locke is its current avatar. Thus, if Jacob has claimed him, then this would relate to Jacob possibly being evil. And, if Jacob claimed him, it would be similar to Claire being 'claimed' and sitting in Jacob's cabin.
*Finally, in the 2004 alternate universe, does anyone else think Kate's lips look like the Joker's??
I think I may agree on the Jacob thing, Camp. For some reason he just seems sinister. But at the same time I have a hard time looking at Esau/Smokie as a good guy, especially after the brutality in Jacob's Footlocker.
ReplyDeleteIt seems to me that it's a situation where good and bad aren't quite the right way to look at it. Maybe Esau is just grumpy and wants everyone out.
Also, is it just me or does it seem like Jacob has a bit of a Jack-style "must fix everything" complex?
Way too little time to really get into things, but....
ReplyDelete- No, I don't recall Kate's lips looking particularly Joker-esque, but a different Joker parallel did occur to me. Dogen has given two totally different answers the two times he was confronted about speaking Japanese despite knowing English; the first time, it was because English "tasted bad" or whatever, and the second time it was to stay separate from his people. "You wanna know how I got these scars?"
- "I was brought here like everyone else" -- yeah, that was key... I like the Tempest stuff, Camp....
- And the memory / possession / infection stuff, Mr. MacDonald....
- If the universe has a way of course-correcting, then it makes sense that, if you reset it to an earlier time, things will proceed similarly... even if other things have been changed. And yet, I was prepared to view the no-Island universe as one free from that predestination stuff.
- Cf. The Incident: "It only ends once. Anything that happens before that is just progress."
Once, not twice. Ha. Hm.
Progress?
Oh Jacob.