Alrighty... so I just finished watching, and my overall impression is that a) it was pretty good, nothing to complain about and b) next week is going to be awesome.
OK, so I have a few questions. First of all, is Charlotte really dead? I still really don't understand how something like that can happen in the past and not effect the future. Just like it doesn't make sense that Danielle saw Jin 16 years ago and doesn't remember him when she sees him later.
Also, you know how Locke and stuff keep on saying that once all the people that left the island return to it, everything will go back to normal- meaning they will stop time traveling? Well I was under the impression that the reason the island was traveling was because Ben MOVED it. So I don't really get that either.
Alright, I think that's all I have for tonight. Although I must say, Sawyer and Jin's reunion was adorable and Desmond's return was pretty epic.
I thought it was a great episode, that kept me thinking and my heart pumping throughout it.
*About Charlotte: my understanding is that the characters moving through time can die because their "reality" or "present" is happening whatever time that they are in. Just because the time around them changes, they are still "living": essentially, imagine someone on a stage with a set behind them--you can move the set in any way, but the person on the stage is the same and is in the present, though the scenery changes.
*I, too, am confused about the things happening in the past not affecting the future. Anyone have an explanation on that?
*What I think is interesting is that all of the "they all need to go back" business is mysterious and something we don't understand; I think that's part of it. And, I don't really have a theory on why everyone HAS to go back, especially since, clearly, many people have come and gone on the island (Widmore, Charlotte, Daniel, and the Oceanic Six).
*Daniel, with the aura around him, has become the focal point, I think, of this season--like Jack was in Season 1, Ben in Season 3, etc.
I had a newspaper meeting that ran late, so I missed the first half of this episode... and then I made the very tough decision to watch the second watch live... I mean, folks were watching in my room, I'd have had to exile myself or something... hm.... oh well, it's healthy for my spoilerphobia.
So my perception of this episode was very skewed. But I'm inclined to say it was pretty fantastic.
* Camp, I like your stage analogy. :)
* When Daniel said his mother could help them, was that only under the condition that she didn't die? She can't be brought back to life, presumably. But I think Daniel's going to go mad trying to escape destiny--to jump off the string. And that will mean staying on the island, joining the Dharma Initiative, helping build the Orchid, and desperately trying to get Charlotte never to come back.
* Who's Charlotte's dad??? That's gotta be important. I wonder if she grew up with Penny....
* The Temple was pretty awesome. That's gotta be the Temple Ben told the Others to flee to, no?
* So, the sickness wasn't the Bomb... it was the Monster. Interesting. It's as if it... corrupts... people..... ssseducesss you............... like a sssssssserpent.........................
* If it doesn't necessarily kill you when it drags you away--is there a whole band of Cerberus victims trapped in the underworld of the island? In hell, basically? And the monster guards it... there are all sorts of mythological analogies we could make... the river Styx...
* That, incidentally, would tie in nicely with the idea that "This place is death."
* Funny that Locke doesn't even realize Christian is Jack's dad. And Jack doesn't realize Christian has been guiding these other folks.
* What I now think is odd about "you all need to go back" is that, wait a second, a few of them "will do"? I thought it was all or nothing!
* What exactly is Ben DOING??? We've been nicely trained to trust him after the past couple seasons, but there's ever more evidence... e.g. that Locke was supposed to move the island, NOT Ben... that he still very much has his own agenda.
* Speaking of which--
HURLEY: I can't believe he did it. KATE: Who did what? HURLEY: Locke. He moved the island. JACK: No, he didn't.
We discussed at the time whether Jack was just being stubborn, or if he somehow had an inkling that no, Locke HADN'T moved the island. And it's now clear that that was very important.
* So basically, two things went wrong in the S4 finale. Ben shouldn't have moved the island, and the O6 shouldn't have left. One is now fixed. Which symptoms does it fix? Which symptoms are left for the return of the O6 to fix?
* But Ben behaved as if he was acting according to Jacob's instructions. "I hope you're happy now, Jacob," etc. What if Jacob and Christian aren't quite aligned?
* I love the parallel, uh, metaphor of the wheel unstuck from its axle, and the island unstuck from time. Daniel called time a string, but the wheel metaphor implies it's a looped string. Cyclicity and all is a big deal, after all.
* SUPER cool how the flashes were emanating from the well/the Orchid. Brings me back to the hatch explosion. I've been wondering... in context of what we know now, what did that DO? The island experienced a "flash" similar to the more recent ones. But presumably it was emanating from the Swan. Ultimately, it's all coming from the same source--the same wellspring of unlimited energy. But there are different outlets that have been opened over time. Leaks, you might say. And you might say those leaks must be plugged. "There's a hole in my bucket," you might say.
(Have any of you read His Dark Materials, aka the Golden Compass trilogy? Fantastic books. Fascinating. I'm reminded of how--spoiler alert!!!--dust is leaking out through Will's windows between worlds. And they have to seal them.)
"I, too, am confused about the things happening in the past not affecting the future. Anyone have an explanation on that?"
Lame answer? Because the writers are a little sloppy.
Better answer? Has to do with the consciousness. Desmond *did*, ultimately, remember meeting Daniel in the hatch. But only "after" we saw Daniel go get him--"after," that is, in the direction of the show's scene order.
Problem is, there's no reason the order they stick their scenes (which is an "out-of-universe," or OOU, ordering--that is, out of the constructed Lostverse) in should have any impact in-universe.
There's World Time. And there's Consciousness Time. But what we're seeing is a Time shared between characters (between consciousnesses), yet not tied to the physical world.
OK, or maybe there *are* multiple universes--parallel strings, Daniel might say. Not quite parallel. Branching.
The strings all gravitate back toward the same world-path. The universe has a way of course correcting. There can't be major differences between strings. Yet there ARE slight differences.
The bridge between OOU (out-of-universe, e.g. viewing order) and IU (in-universe) could be that we, the viewers, are jumping from string to string. And at any given point, the characters we see are on the same string.
I've been ignoring the "little changes" loophole for the sake of simplicity. But it may be key to making this all fit.
It doesn't QUITE answer the question. But it seems like a step toward it. Maybe.
Of course, it's what they've been telling us all along. I had just taken steps *away* from that, onto a little groundless string-branch of my own.
I was in Chicago and missed the new episode, but now I'm back up to speed. Not a lot to offer, but I do have a few thoughts:
--Rousseau seems like she might not have been so crazy. Way back when she was first introduced, she seemed like she might be a few sandwiches short of a picnic, but now a lot of the things she said have been confirmed (e.g., removing the firing pin from her husband's gun). I'm inclined to believe the stuff she said about people getting infected, too. It seems like the monster can take control of people. Maybe Christian Shepard and other "dead" characters are now under its control?
--I second Toph's confusion about the need for all of the O6 to return to the island.
--I think that Desmond's return to the island is key. His ability to change fate might end up allowing Daniel to save Charlotte.
--Prior to Locke's turn of the wheel, Sawyer and friends seemed to be way back in time (pre-Dharma?), judging by the lack of the Orchid AND the well. I wonder if Locke created one last time jump or not. I'm still waiting for some Black Rock/four-toed statue stuff.
OK I didn't get to watch until this weekend so thats why I've been slow to post but.....
I thought it was a great episode. They continued the classic format of answering a few questions and creating dozens more.
*Charlotte- somebody needs to die! they shouldnt play around with all of that unless somebody DIES....but you know Juliets always an option But also, when in time were they when she died? That may be relative thought because I assume when they all go back (or some go back) Locke should travel through the flashes with them dead. What was her deal with Daniel? That was sad.
Also, I really want to know who her dad is. It's possible its Whidmore....ok I know it won't be but I want her mom to be annie! I dont think the age is quite right though.
*Roseau/smoke monster- I loved having the monster be something besides just a monster. It exaplined the sickness that Roseau's men had which I thought was going to be the time jump nosebleed brain aneurism thing. I will admit when her husband tried to shoot her n it didn't work I was really excited that the island wasn't letting her die...but it was just her being smart. So no it know it also has mental powers...Is that the monster or someone working with the monster? Whats so special about the orchid???????
Also...is Jacob Christian? He was the one who told Locke. Im confused
Alrighty... so I just finished watching, and my overall impression is that
ReplyDeletea) it was pretty good, nothing to complain about
and b) next week is going to be awesome.
OK, so I have a few questions. First of all, is Charlotte really dead? I still really don't understand how something like that can happen in the past and not effect the future. Just like it doesn't make sense that Danielle saw Jin 16 years ago and doesn't remember him when she sees him later.
Also, you know how Locke and stuff keep on saying that once all the people that left the island return to it, everything will go back to normal- meaning they will stop time traveling? Well I was under the impression that the reason the island was traveling was because Ben MOVED it. So I don't really get that either.
Alright, I think that's all I have for tonight. Although I must say, Sawyer and Jin's reunion was adorable and Desmond's return was pretty epic.
I thought it was a great episode, that kept me thinking and my heart pumping throughout it.
ReplyDelete*About Charlotte: my understanding is that the characters moving through time can die because their "reality" or "present" is happening whatever time that they are in. Just because the time around them changes, they are still "living": essentially, imagine someone on a stage with a set behind them--you can move the set in any way, but the person on the stage is the same and is in the present, though the scenery changes.
*I, too, am confused about the things happening in the past not affecting the future. Anyone have an explanation on that?
*What I think is interesting is that all of the "they all need to go back" business is mysterious and something we don't understand; I think that's part of it. And, I don't really have a theory on why everyone HAS to go back, especially since, clearly, many people have come and gone on the island (Widmore, Charlotte, Daniel, and the Oceanic Six).
*Daniel, with the aura around him, has become the focal point, I think, of this season--like Jack was in Season 1, Ben in Season 3, etc.
I had a newspaper meeting that ran late, so I missed the first half of this episode... and then I made the very tough decision to watch the second watch live... I mean, folks were watching in my room, I'd have had to exile myself or something... hm.... oh well, it's healthy for my spoilerphobia.
ReplyDeleteSo my perception of this episode was very skewed. But I'm inclined to say it was pretty fantastic.
* Camp, I like your stage analogy. :)
* When Daniel said his mother could help them, was that only under the condition that she didn't die? She can't be brought back to life, presumably. But I think Daniel's going to go mad trying to escape destiny--to jump off the string. And that will mean staying on the island, joining the Dharma Initiative, helping build the Orchid, and desperately trying to get Charlotte never to come back.
* Who's Charlotte's dad??? That's gotta be important. I wonder if she grew up with Penny....
* The Temple was pretty awesome. That's gotta be the Temple Ben told the Others to flee to, no?
* So, the sickness wasn't the Bomb... it was the Monster. Interesting. It's as if it... corrupts... people..... ssseducesss you............... like a sssssssserpent.........................
* If it doesn't necessarily kill you when it drags you away--is there a whole band of Cerberus victims trapped in the underworld of the island? In hell, basically? And the monster guards it... there are all sorts of mythological analogies we could make... the river Styx...
* That, incidentally, would tie in nicely with the idea that "This place is death."
* Funny that Locke doesn't even realize Christian is Jack's dad. And Jack doesn't realize Christian has been guiding these other folks.
* What I now think is odd about "you all need to go back" is that, wait a second, a few of them "will do"? I thought it was all or nothing!
* What exactly is Ben DOING??? We've been nicely trained to trust him after the past couple seasons, but there's ever more evidence... e.g. that Locke was supposed to move the island, NOT Ben... that he still very much has his own agenda.
* Speaking of which--
HURLEY: I can't believe he did it.
KATE: Who did what?
HURLEY: Locke. He moved the island.
JACK: No, he didn't.
We discussed at the time whether Jack was just being stubborn, or if he somehow had an inkling that no, Locke HADN'T moved the island. And it's now clear that that was very important.
* So basically, two things went wrong in the S4 finale. Ben shouldn't have moved the island, and the O6 shouldn't have left. One is now fixed. Which symptoms does it fix? Which symptoms are left for the return of the O6 to fix?
* But Ben behaved as if he was acting according to Jacob's instructions. "I hope you're happy now, Jacob," etc. What if Jacob and Christian aren't quite aligned?
* I love the parallel, uh, metaphor of the wheel unstuck from its axle, and the island unstuck from time. Daniel called time a string, but the wheel metaphor implies it's a looped string. Cyclicity and all is a big deal, after all.
* SUPER cool how the flashes were emanating from the well/the Orchid. Brings me back to the hatch explosion. I've been wondering... in context of what we know now, what did that DO? The island experienced a "flash" similar to the more recent ones. But presumably it was emanating from the Swan. Ultimately, it's all coming from the same source--the same wellspring of unlimited energy. But there are different outlets that have been opened over time. Leaks, you might say. And you might say those leaks must be plugged. "There's a hole in my bucket," you might say.
(Have any of you read His Dark Materials, aka the Golden Compass trilogy? Fantastic books. Fascinating. I'm reminded of how--spoiler alert!!!--dust is leaking out through Will's windows between worlds. And they have to seal them.)
"I, too, am confused about the things happening in the past not affecting the future. Anyone have an explanation on that?"
ReplyDeleteLame answer? Because the writers are a little sloppy.
Better answer? Has to do with the consciousness. Desmond *did*, ultimately, remember meeting Daniel in the hatch. But only "after" we saw Daniel go get him--"after," that is, in the direction of the show's scene order.
Problem is, there's no reason the order they stick their scenes (which is an "out-of-universe," or OOU, ordering--that is, out of the constructed Lostverse) in should have any impact in-universe.
There's World Time. And there's Consciousness Time. But what we're seeing is a Time shared between characters (between consciousnesses), yet not tied to the physical world.
OK, or maybe there *are* multiple universes--parallel strings, Daniel might say. Not quite parallel. Branching.
ReplyDeleteThe strings all gravitate back toward the same world-path. The universe has a way of course correcting. There can't be major differences between strings. Yet there ARE slight differences.
The bridge between OOU (out-of-universe, e.g. viewing order) and IU (in-universe) could be that we, the viewers, are jumping from string to string. And at any given point, the characters we see are on the same string.
I've been ignoring the "little changes" loophole for the sake of simplicity. But it may be key to making this all fit.
It doesn't QUITE answer the question. But it seems like a step toward it. Maybe.
Of course, it's what they've been telling us all along. I had just taken steps *away* from that, onto a little groundless string-branch of my own.
P.S. http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_a7jkcMVp5Vg/SY7XG-S3HdI/AAAAAAAAICE/kvD8oBqHSls/s400/BEATSTANFORD.jpg
ReplyDelete(from www.postsecret.com)
I was in Chicago and missed the new episode, but now I'm back up to speed. Not a lot to offer, but I do have a few thoughts:
ReplyDelete--Rousseau seems like she might not have been so crazy. Way back when she was first introduced, she seemed like she might be a few sandwiches short of a picnic, but now a lot of the things she said have been confirmed (e.g., removing the firing pin from her husband's gun). I'm inclined to believe the stuff she said about people getting infected, too. It seems like the monster can take control of people. Maybe Christian Shepard and other "dead" characters are now under its control?
--I second Toph's confusion about the need for all of the O6 to return to the island.
--I think that Desmond's return to the island is key. His ability to change fate might end up allowing Daniel to save Charlotte.
--Prior to Locke's turn of the wheel, Sawyer and friends seemed to be way back in time (pre-Dharma?), judging by the lack of the Orchid AND the well. I wonder if Locke created one last time jump or not. I'm still waiting for some Black Rock/four-toed statue stuff.
OK I didn't get to watch until this weekend so thats why I've been slow to post but.....
ReplyDeleteI thought it was a great episode. They continued the classic format of answering a few questions and creating dozens more.
*Charlotte- somebody needs to die! they shouldnt play around with all of that unless somebody DIES....but you know Juliets always an option
But also, when in time were they when she died? That may be relative thought because I assume when they all go back (or some go back) Locke should travel through the flashes with them dead. What was her deal with Daniel? That was sad.
Also, I really want to know who her dad is. It's possible its Whidmore....ok I know it won't be but I want her mom to be annie! I dont think the age is quite right though.
*Roseau/smoke monster- I loved having the monster be something besides just a monster. It exaplined the sickness that Roseau's men had which I thought was going to be the time jump nosebleed brain aneurism thing. I will admit when her husband tried to shoot her n it didn't work I was really excited that the island wasn't letting her die...but it was just her being smart. So no it know it also has mental powers...Is that the monster or someone working with the monster? Whats so special about the orchid???????
Also...is Jacob Christian? He was the one who told Locke. Im confused
Can't wait for next week!